Making Sense of Our Chaotic World

The world is a mess right now. No matter what you read, watch, or listen to, the headlines are alarming:  senseless shootings, a difficult war, an upcoming and controversial Supreme Court decision, midterm elections, a lingering pandemic, and a serious mental health crisis amongst our kids.

If it feels overwhelming to you as a parent, imagine how it makes your child feel -- and rest assured, they hear what's happening in our world and have feelings about it.

In this episode of Parenting the Mental Health Generation, Amy O. (aka the mom) and Dr. Lisa (aka the psychologist) seek hope and strategies to talk with their kids, friends, and family about these headlines in a conversation with Maggie Schwalbach, an executive coach and founder, North Shore Executive Functioning.

Together, they explore the value of reacting, responding, and knowing when to do each. (HINT: You react to a bear!) And, the grace in pausing.

You'll also hear advice on approaching media consumption like a diet (You may think of McDonald's french fries every time you binge watch Netflix after this episode.) and the importance of empowering our kids.

This is the conversation you aren’t having with your kids' doctors and teachers because time doesn’t allow it. Or, with your friends, because they just don’t get it. So put in your earbuds,
take this 30 minutes for you and join our conversation because mental health matters.

Amy O. (aka the mom) is the founder and Dr. Lisa (aka the psychologist) is an active board member of CATCH, Community Action Together for Children's Health, a not for profit organization on the North Shore of Chicago with a mission to empower
families to foster resilience and prioritize mental health and emotional wellness in their children through educational programming, access to resources, and peer support.

To find all of the resources CATCH provides to caregivers of young people struggling with their mental health, go to www.catchiscommunity.org or follow us on social media @catchiscommunity. 

Music credit "3 Water Springs" by Ian Post

To find all of the resources CATCH provides to caregivers of young people struggling with their mental health, go to www.catchiscommunity.org.

Follow us on social media
Facebook/Instagram/YouTube: @catchiscommunity

CATCH, Community Action Together for Children's Health, is a 501(c)3 that provides support and education for families around mental health topics. Original content and materials from CATCH and its collaborators are for informational purposes only. They are provided as a general resource and are not specific to any person or circumstance.

Transcript

Anne Neumann (00:00):

This is Anne, one of the producers of Parenting the Mental Health Generation . A programming note. While we are releasing this episode in June, it was recorded after the Buffalo shooting but before the Texas school shooting. It saddens us that our guests insights about talking with our kids about really hard topics seems to become more helpful with each passing day. Here is the episode.

Amy Oberholtzer (00:28):

There is so much going on in our world today. So many reasons why we react or respond to something each and every day with strong feelings. On today's episode of Parenting the Mental Health Generation, we will learn just what the difference is between reacting and responding and how we can help ourselves and our kids deal with these powerful feelings. Welcome. I'm Amy Oberholtzer.

Lisa Novak (00:55):

And I'm Dr. Lisa Novak. Amy and I are the hosts of Parenting the Mental Health Generation. It's difficult to parent a kid struggling with their mental health, and it can be really lonely here. We lay it all out together and discuss the topics that concern us on our parenting journeys.

Amy Oberholtzer (01:11):

Today, we're speaking with Maggie Schwalbach, founder of North Shore Executive Functioning, world schooler, outside-the-box thinker and educational consultant.

Lisa Novak (01:27):

Maggie's here to help us make heads or tails of our current and challenging world.

Maggie Schwalbach (01:32):

I think that really the opposite of control is trust and the opposite of trust is control.

Lisa Novak (01:41):

She's going to help us understand better how we can foster resilience in our kids and an understanding of the difference between reaction and response.

Amy Oberholtzer (01:50):

So put your earbuds in, take this 30 minutes for you and join our conversation with Maggie Schwalbach.

Lisa Novak (01:59):

Hi, Maggie, thanks so much for joining us today.

Maggie Schwalbach (02:02):

Oh, it's so lovely to be here. Thank you to the whole CATCH team.

Lisa Novak (02:06):

We are excited to have you, and it's a big topic here. You know, the world is truly a mess right now, no matter what you read or watch or listen to, the headlines are about a difficult war, an upcoming Supreme Court decision, midterm elections, this pandemic that won't go away and a serious mental health crisis among our kids. We keep thinking about how we want to be educating our kids. We want to be open about the world at large, but it feels bleak at times. And we're trying to process how much to share and talk through this with our children.

Maggie Schwalbach (02:42):

I think that is exactly it. You know, the name of the podcast Parenting the Mental Health Generation.

Amy Oberholtzer (02:48):

Yep.

Lisa Novak (02:48):

Yes Indeed.

Maggie Schwalbach (02:49):

Yeah. I mean, I just think that that's such a beautiful frame. I mean, I think health and wellbeing is something that continually evolves and the challenges may be a new flavor, but there are plenty of moments in history that have been really, really challenging. And another thing I'd pick up on from the intro is this idea of loneliness, right? I think that it's interesting and such an interconnected world that we're seeing increasing bouts of desperate loneliness.

Amy Oberholtzer (03:25):

You know, it, it seems like that's a really good segue into what Lisa and I wanted to dig in with you kind of first. And that is we're experiencing all of these sort of global issues together. However, we are still so incredibly isolated and separated from one another, even though we're experiencing them as a whole sort of planet, and we want you to help us understand better how best we can talk through these issues that are creating such angst and pain with our kids. How much should we let them know? Where should we draw the line? How much should they know about how we're feeling? Those kinds of things?

Maggie Schwalbach (04:15):

Yeah, it's an important question. I think it's a big question. I think you're giving voice to a lot of parents' thought process. What feels most painful? What feels most urgent? What feels most tricky? So, what I'll often say. I gave a, a presentation yesterday kind of in my day job as an executive functioning coach. And I said, my two kind of baseline strategies for parents is zip it and ask a question, right? In other words, shush, stop talking and ask a question. So when things feel really hard and I'd invite us to do this among our peers in our own families, not just with kids, but really if somebody says something that feels difficult for us or triggering for us, I can give a lot of examples. <laugh> but I think a strategy, a takeaway tip is asking a question from that. What do you mean by that? What specifically feels hardest? What I think I'm hearing in your question though, is the difference, and it's an important one, between avoidance. This is hard. The world is hard and I want to protect and shield my children from that hard, hard, hard reality. That's actually a disservice to our kids. That's different from zipping it <laugh> out of fear versus, or protection, or like kinda this idea of I'm going to shield them from the world.

Anne Neumann (05:43):

Are you talking about asking your kids the question?

Maggie Schwalbach (05:46):

I am indeed. Yeah. Asking the kids the question. So I guess we'd have to contextualize a little more. Yeah, I know there's a lot of, a lot of difficulties in the world to choose from <laugh>. So which one Amy, should we, should we start with or what do you think parents are struggling with most?

Anne Neumann (06:01):

Let's just take the news of the last couple of days. Mm-hmm, fellow Americans walked into a grocery store and did not walk out. That's terrifying because we all walk into grocery stores all the time. So I'm scared. I feel saddened and scared and afraid and angry. How much of that do I process with or share with my kids who also are hearing of this news.

Maggie Schwalbach (06:36):

And that second part I want to highlight, because I think sometimes we may assume that our kids aren't hearing about fill in the blank challenge. Here, we're talking about the mass shooting in Buffalo, all of us now know the, those of us on this podcast know about it. How do we know about it? We may have different ways that we heard about it, right? But one thing is a reality in that we live in an age of mass media, we are saturated in information and the challenge becomes living with and filtering through information, particularly traumatic, horrible information like this. One of the things that I remind myself that most people in the world are good. Most times we walk into a grocery store, we do walk out right? That, that is factually and statistically true. And fear does not <laugh> base itself in rational thinking and statistics.

Maggie Schwalbach (07:46):

And so one of the things we can then think about when we have these spectacular pieces of news and terrifying pieces of information is to what I call pause and plan. What's pause and plan? Pause is before we voice any of this with our kids, we receive the information. The pause is the information kind of gathering. And, and by information, I don't just mean rational information. I mean, emotional information too. What am I feeling in this moment? How is this affecting me? And then the second part is plan. The plan actually is the empowerment. The plan doesn't have to be, I'm going to change the world. And I so often think that we don't get to the second part of the plan, cause we don't know what to do because we feel so isolated, alone, overwhelmed, terrified, and that's okay. We don't have to then go have a march. I mean, we could, that could be our plan, but the plan can then be now, what now? How do I show up in the world? How do I go grocery shopping again? What next? Whatever that is, I think the danger a lot of times, and this is where it can feel so disempowering is that without a plan, it's just the emotions.

Lisa Novak (09:04):

And I'm wondering how, how we can connect that back to the, the first bit of advice and, and tip that you were sharing about zipping it and asking a question to our kids. Do we have to do our pausing and our own planning first and then bring it to our kids. And I'm wondering too, if the asking a question is to make sure that we're not putting our own emotions on them, but truly giving them the space to tell us how they're feeling.

Maggie Schwalbach (09:39):

Yes, yes. And yes <laugh> so yes, the pause and plan is a strategy for us internally. Okay. And the plan, let me just be clear is not, how do I package this so it's palpable to myself or to another person, right. To my kid. That's not really what I'm saying. The question as a strategy is figuring out what they know or don't know. Okay. It can be, have you seen the news? Have you seen the news? And remember that it's not one source. So that, even that question in and of itself is kind of an outdated model, because it used to be different types of news sources. What it used to be was like a hose and now it's um, you know, a fire hydrant <laugh> of information coming out. All right. Maybe if the answer for the kids, you know, have you seen the news?

Maggie Schwalbach (10:27):

What are you talking about? Which news? Right? Did you see what happened in Buffalo? I don't know what you're talking about, Mom, that now gives us more information. We're walking in without a predetermined, um, outcome of, I will protect my children. Basically I'll give them their lens. Sometimes we can walk in as parents thinking that we have that power. We don't. And I actually think that that's for the better, because it's not our role to give somebody else a perspective or a lens. We can help convey what we know without shoving on our fears or our it's. Okay. It's okay. There's nothing to pay attention to here. So in terms of your answer to your question, Lisa, about what questions are we supposed to ask our kids? I think it's really kind of a frame or an invitation to be curious along with our kids. That's what I'm saying about the zip it and ask a question

Anne Neumann (11:27):

Maybe a, a way to say it in a, in a different way, or maybe this is going to help me understand it better is rather than trying to control what our kids feel or hear or understand. It's a matter of processing through with them what we feel and hear and understand and what they feel and hear and understand and coming to a place of sort of mutual under mutual, I'm repeating myself. But understanding, is that what you're kind of saying?

Maggie Schwalbach (12:00):

Yeah, I think so. I think there is something to be said about coming to our, um, understanding in real time, along with our kids, just kind of a cautionary note there in that I don't know that it's always appropriate or fair for our children to be treated as the sounding board for our own processing. I think that kids deserve from parents knowing two things: that they are loved and that they're safe, that they're loved and that they're safe. And if we're processing in real time our fears about is this a safe and loving world that can put on the shoulders of our kids, some scary fear that maybe is not theirs to carry. And I think one of the questions that's always asked is when is it appropriate to start talking to my kids? When do I bring mass shootings or racial injustice? When can I talk about that? And I, again, I go back to my work as a diversity trainer working in preschools, I have seen over and over parents shocked like their jaw is literally dropping with their three and four year olds where we're talking about tough issues and their kids are asking questions and are aware. And parents come up to me afterwards going, I had no idea that my kid knew about this to which I respond. Kids are sponges. You listen to the news in the car. You listen to the news in your, do you talk,

Anne Neumann (13:38):

Can you give an example of a topic that you've discussed with preschool kids? I used to be, I was a preschool teacher for many years. And one of the things that, that I used to try to do was to always speak to the kids as human beings instead of as small children. And I'm interested if you could just give us an example of something that you have discussed with them that might be surprising to some of us parents.

Maggie Schwalbach (14:04):

Yeah. I think race relations. There are plenty of people that say, um, kids are too young. To which I respond. If they're in an environment they're going to look around and see with their wide open eyes. So I have been in preschool classrooms in which we are talking about race and racial discrimination and every kid in the circle has something to say on it. And, and many parents come up to me afterwards and go, I had no idea. I had no idea, not that this exists in our country, but that my child has thoughts and opinions. So I, I really think you said it best Amy, that you treated your students like fellow human beings. There's value in that. And I think that that can be another tool that we can take away from today of thinking through. And it doesn't have to be a three year old. It could be a 13 year old, you know, or an 18 year old. Those are still developing humans or a 28 year old. They're still our kids. And we may have this kind of protection mindset of, I need to protect my child's delicate mental health to which I think my response would be let's think about them having the tough conversations, not shielding them from the tough conversations. We don't want to bring it to their doorstep, but we want to open a space of, you know, you can talk about this with me, right?

Lisa Novak (15:32):

I think that's so critical because I'm thinking about this both as a psychologist and the parent of a four year old, um, I do often think we underestimate what our kids are aware of. What they have thoughts and opinions and can really converse about. Uh, but I worry about that. We want them to feel loved and safe. And I think that's where it continues to get tricky is how do we open up the spaces and the conversations and, uh, you know, pull back the, the curtain to let them know, Hey, the world, sometimes isn't a safe place, while still allowing them to feel safe in this world. It, it feels so contradictory sometimes,

Anne Neumann (16:25):

But don't you think that in a way that's what a family, you know, whether it be a blood family or a family that isn't by blood, isn't that what a family can offer in a sense is, yeah, this is a really scary world. And unfortunately right now, every single headline seems to be really difficult to swallow. But here at home, we can talk about these things in a safe place. We can be honest with each other about how we feel and still be protected here. You know, maybe that's kind of what we're getting to the bottom of in this conversation is, you know, one of the things that CATCH always does, right, Lis, is like, we want people to talk about mental health and we want people to destigmatize mental illness because we know that that helps people who are suffering feel normal and reach out for help. And we want to be able to give our kids the same chance to talk about these things that they are afraid of and to do it in our own place of love and safety. That was kind of the light bulb moment for me just then. Yeah.

Maggie Schwalbach (17:43):

I, I think we're all nodding our head and I don't know that the listener can see us nodding our heads, right? I mean, that's the thing of a podcast. I think one of the powers to really piggyback on what you're saying, Amy is media literacy is decoding the, the noise. And, and I don't say noise because it's, all conspiracy, there are, there are real things happening. And I think in our communities, in our households, in our families of blood or by choice, right, we can have, we have that power to then think about two things. One is what is our media diet? So I don't know if you've heard that term before, but what's our consumption pattern? What does it look like? And I liken it to some people are lactose intolerance. Some people are gluten-free. Some people love McDonald's every day. Right? We're different. So I actually shy away.

Maggie Schwalbach (18:39):

I think guidelines are guidelines in terms of how much media and at what age I know, especially I can see everybody sort of grinning <laugh> because very often it, we can feel like failures as parents. You know, my kids are on screens too much. Okay, fine. According to X guideline. But I think the real conversation or the real opportunity is what's the appropriate diet for my, for each child and for myself? And we can understand that with a multi-person household, that will look different, it may look different for each person. So for some kids, they may find real comfort actually in the fact-finding missions, they want to know about what happened last week. And we, there, I do think that there's a responsibility of our helping them look for, um, appropriate resources and, um, true <laugh> reliable resources, which is a big deal. Right. And then the second part, and here's where I, I really empathize with all parents that we can resist our temptation to shield because that can backfire.

Maggie Schwalbach (19:52):

It's kind of like saying, I will only have an organic blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, diet for my kids. And then those are the kids that go to somebody else's house and eat from the candy jar. <laugh> by the handful. And actually the research backs this up. It's not about shielding, it's about empowerment. And it actually is easier than we may think it doesn't have to be this grand plan. So let's trust ourselves parents to, to know our kids. We know if our kid is, has a tendencies towards anxiety, gets really anxious about the world. We can have a conversation with them about how much exposure is right. And I don't say right, right versus wrong is right for you. What serves you? And if we're noticing that they're not able to regulate that, we can help them regulate that. How about we just try this week, just a half an hour, a day at a designated time or two hours a day or whatever it's and I'm going to make a commitment to, to not turn on NPR when we're in the car. What do you think about that? We're in conversation. I can see you want to say something and go ahead.

Anne Neumann (21:02):

Um, at risk of sounding judgmental and I, and I don't mean to be, I think what I hear you saying loud and clear is just like, we worry about what our kids put in our mouths. We need to take, we need to be empowered as parents to take action about what they put into their brains.

Maggie Schwalbach (21:27):

I am saying that. And, and, and go ahead,

Amy Oberholtzer (21:30):

Go ahead. Now, go ahead.

Maggie Schwalbach (21:31):

And, and to we, and not. There's the control thing again, I think that really the opposite of control is trust and the opposite of trust is control. Okay. So out of what happens when we're afraid, we try to control. All right. That's just, it happens to me, plenty of examples, where I've tried to do that. Right? And so I don't know that it's and we can couch it in language of protection or responsibility. And I think where our opportunity lies is recognizing that it's a media saturated world. Our kids are likely to put it in their mouth. So to say, they're likely to consume it. And so I think part of our job is to help them process it. It's, they're already having the junk food,

Anne Neumann (22:21):

But also not throw our hands up in the air and say, Ugh, these cell phones, Ugh, these iPads. There's just nothing I can do about it. Because what I hear you saying is we, we can help our kids understand what's coming into them. And it's our it's imperative that we do

Maggie Schwalbach (22:43):

Both, both. We can help them set limits around what's coming into them. It's not easy. And we are not hovering over them, nor should we be 24/7. So even what we can control, where we think we have control, we can set some limits in and set some boundaries that serve them. I'm going to keep repeating that. You know, just like the one diet is not for every person. One media consumption diet is not for every person. So helping them understand when you eat cheese, it hurts your tummy. You know, they want, I want ice cream. I want ice cream. I know it. But here's the consequence of what happens with that. That's an important conversation. I don't think we're having enough. All right. And then the second part is when you're in my house, you're not going to have cheese, but when you go have a cheeseburger with your friends, when you come back home, let's have a really safe place to talk about this. And that can be organic just as it comes up, or it can be intentional. We can be watching. Something has nothing to do with the news. And this again is media literacy 101, pause the Netflix series and go, man, that was tough. Right? And I'm not talking about just with littles, I'm talking about all along or even with adults that we can say that was really triggering. This is really hard to watch, because I'm thinking about what's going in the world right now.

Anne Neumann (24:08):

When we were thinking about putting this podcast together and, and inviting you to join us one of the things that, um, the one of our board members said is there are just so many people who are so angry right now. There's just so much anger. What are we going to do with all this anger? And what we see happening is that people are reacting to it. They're just, they, they, they react quickly and they send an email to the editor or they go in front of the school board or they, you know, call their neighbor or they do whatever it is. And they react, they react, they react. And, and it seems like we're kind of morphing into, to a conversation with you about breathing, pausing and then responding rather than reacting.

Maggie Schwalbach (25:00):

Let's dive into those two words, because I think people use them interchangeably and I'm really glad you brought that up because there's a difference between react and respond and you know, just in normal parlance we might say, oh and then how did he react? Ooh. When she responded by doing this. So I want us to be very thoughtful about what those two things mean. Okay. So what is a reaction? And I think the easiest way to conceptualize it is this idea of a knee, knee-jerk reaction. Right. Um, and I joke with my kids that when we go to the doctor and they hit the little mail, it, my kids are like, I'm going to out outthink it this time, this time my, my knee's not going to move. And I'm like, I hope that's not the case. <laugh> cause it has nothing to do with cognition.

Maggie Schwalbach (25:42):

It has nothing to do. You don't outthink reaction, right? It's a knee-jerk reaction. So for any listener right now, it's this idea of what's reaction. Oh right. Think of knee-jerk reaction. It's something we do. Boom. All right. Response is something that we process. We take a beat, we take a pause. It's so, so often when I'm telling teenagers about this, when I'm talking about this in my coaching practice of, and they, they conceptualize reaction is bad. Response is good. They think reaction, anger to piggyback and what you were saying, anger, bad, calm, good. Not necessarily. There is a place for all of the emotions. There is a place for anger. I am thankful that anger exists in our world because anger and this is very kind of Buddhist can be the impetus for change. It's that fire that's in our belly to propels us to change.

Maggie Schwalbach (26:41):

The problem is anger without any pause or reflection or processing is all-consuming. It's going to burn us up to, along in the process. It's not going to fire us towards change. It's going to just cause havoc. So what's the difference between reaction and response? It's the pause. And I know that sounds very conceptual, but it's very concrete. It's a tool we can take away. When I am reacting to a news article or to something really, um, alarming that my child has said. And, and it's triggering me. It is affecting me. I am scared for the wellbeing of the person that I love. We want to make sure that that's not the mallet on the knee, just going up, right. The trigger. So we, we say exactly what we've always said or whatever, or we react how we react, which is usually by the way based in fear. So response can still be the same behaviors.

Maggie Schwalbach (27:39):

They're not usually, but they can be. The difference is that we've taken a beat, taken a pause. I don't think I, I, I really don't think there's enough space in our society right now. Really, truly. I wish we could give ourselves more breath, more grace, more pause. I think we deserve it. I think we deserve in our parenting. So often we're going to, am I doing this right or wrong? You know what I mean? Like, and that's reactionary. We're not doing it right or wrong. When we reflect, then we can say there's a little bit more openness. There's a little bit more understanding. There's a little bit more compassion that I'm able to offer myself and to my kids.

Lisa Novak (28:26):

What you're, what you're describing actually feels so physiological to me. As I, as I hear it, I'm thinking about like the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems you are talking about, you know this fight or flight response that gets enacted in us. Um, you know, potentially all, all too often. And yes, of course there's a time and a place for that. Exactly. As you're saying, um, you know, if there is a, a bear coming at us, we have to respond. But I think all of the news and all of the overwhelm of what's happening in this world has us overactivated so that our, our, you know, our sympathetic nervous system is firing too much. And, and this is such a great reminder what you're saying to reenact and, and enlist that parasympathetic system where we think about it and we can actually slow down and not be as reactive. It's,, it's just such a helpful reminder for, for me to hear you share,

Maggie Schwalbach (29:28):

You know, one of the things I'll just say also, I'm going to catch you a little bit, Lisa, because you said respond to the bear. We don't ever respond to the bear or the tell or the girl there

Lisa Novak (29:38):

Go just,

Maggie Schwalbach (29:39):

Just careful there it's cause we use them interchangeably. Um, so that's not like a shame shame on you. It's a let's remember we will react to the bear that is charging at us. And often news, like what we've been talking about feels like a bear and you know what? It should feel like a bear because otherwise we're not really alive. <laugh> we are human. I'll speak for myself. I see that. And I uttered a swear word because I'm affected, l because I'm alive, because I care. The danger is taking that and then pushing it out unconsciously on whomever is around me or on myself. And that's where the response and the pause is that paramagnetic. So just three ways a hug. So the research actually is really clear on this. A loving embrace calms down. It gets us into a place where we can be calmer. If we're feeling triggered.

Maggie Schwalbach (30:42):

And that doesn't mean that all people love hugs, but a warm embrace actually can really, really help deep breaths as much as everybody always tells us, take a breath, take a breath, take a breath. Just want to offer it up in case you're not exhaling. And if you're going to do one of the two, the inhale is natural. We're going to inhale to survive. The exhale in a deep, long exhale will help our body start to relax. And then the third kind of take home tip is water, something sensory. If we're feeling overwhelmed, if we read that news article or if our kid comes to us, can we get in a bath? Can we get in a cold shower? Can we wash our hands, wash the dishes? Can we help our kids go out and play in the snow or whatever? Um, yeah, it's not easy to do. We don't live in a world that really values pause. And I want us to be able to recognize that if we're really fostering resilience in kids, we can invite them to see us model the pause, and also to recognize that the pause is as important as the plan. They're equally important. So that part really matters.

Amy Oberholtzer (31:59):

I think that is such an important thing that you have shared with us today amongst a lot of others. But when I was in the throes of parenting my daughter through her mental illness and the darkness of all of that, um, it was so important to me that I stopped and didn't find myself a week down the road or even hours down the road that I paused and stood in that moment and realized that in that moment we were okay that I, you know, and, and I realize it's slightly different, but it was a way for me to pause and stop and respond to what was happening rather than completely lose my mind. So,

Maggie Schwalbach (32:47):

And trust and trust too. Yeah. Right when we pause and we say, I'm okay right now, it almost, it's not our intention. Cause if chasing the intention of I'm going to be calm, we don't get there. <laugh> but when we pause and go, hold on, I am held and I am okay. And I am still, there's a natural trust that starts to take over. And sometimes that can kind of radiate outwards beyond just ourselves, but it's got to, I really firmly believe it's gotta start with ourselves. The pause has to start with ourselves because we do get overwhelmed and we're allowed to get overwhelmed. And as parents, there's that delicate mix. We're not controlling these little beings. We're accompanying them. We're guiding them. It's, it's a privilege to do so. And yes, they're looking to us, but not we're, it's not all about us. <laugh> and it's actually, they're looking to the world, but it's not all about the world. So that I think is calming and grounding in and of itself. I really appreciate you sharing that.

Lisa Novak (33:55):

Well, we both know that we could talk to you for hours <laugh> but our time is up now, Maggie, you are always such a delight to talk to. Thank you for giving us your time and your generosity and your, just your commitment to our community's mental health. We, we really have truly loved this conversation.

Maggie Schwalbach (34:15):

Thank you. Thank you for all that you do. And really, it does take a village. Um, and when we think about the mission of CATCH and I sound like an advertisement for CATCH, but I'm not, I just admire what you do, which is to have conversations around this. Let, if people are listening kind of in isolation with their earbuds right now, um, it we're all thinking this same stuff we're parents going, oh my gosh, I'm seeing my kids struggling. Oh my gosh, I better not talk about it. Some people think that, take a pause, take a pause. <laugh> and think through, am I allowed to talk about this? The answer is yes. And then the plan can be whatever the plan feels right for you. And that's going to progress and be different, but I am so grateful for your, your commitment. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for what you do.

Amy Oberholtzer (35:08):

Thanks Maggie. It was a pleasure.

Lisa Novak (35:12):

Bye.

Amy Oberholtzer (35:14):

Thanks for listening to another episode of parenting, the mental health generation

Lisa Novak (35:20):

Stay current on all CATCH programming by liking us on facebook@catchiscommunity or by visiting our website catchiscommunity.org.

Amy Oberholtzer (35:31):

We are glad that you joined us to continue the conversation. It's important to talk about our mental health and reach out for help if needed.